Some of the previous blog posts addressing gender inequalities have noted that when certain things like rape or abuse happen to one gender, it is more accepted than if the same thing were to happen to the other gender.
This idea of role reversal is something that I'd like to discuss using the movie "She's the Man" as an example. In "She's the Man" the main character Viola, disguises herself as her twin brother Sebastian, in order to earn a place on the boys' soccer team and prove that girls can play just as well as boys.
Along the way, we see the process that Viola goes through in order to keep up her facade and how her new guy friends perceive "Sebastian."
Viola is not portrayed as a completely stereotypical girl, but rather she is sporty, she does not like very "girly" thing like debutantes (coming out parties) and she's very outspoken and not afraid to be crude. However, she does have some more "typically feminine" qualities, such as the fact that she is caring and passionate, and in touch with her emotions.
This, in the end leads her to catch the attention of the male lead Duke (Channing Tatum).
As Sebastian, Viola tries to embody the dominant discourse of men. She tries to be tough and strong, she speaks with a low voice and uses slang such as "bro" and "homie," and she tries not to show emotion. Unfortunately, Viola is not very good at this. When she does slip up and let her emotions and her more caring side show, she (as Sebastian) is thought of as weird and a loser by the other guys. Its not until "Sebastian" pretends to be a player that the other guys start to think that he's cool.
Check out this clip:
She's The Man Restaurant Scene
The explicit message in this clip is that its not cool for guys to be emotional. Guys are cool when they get a lot of girls or they're players. So to go along with this theme of role reversals, how come girls can't be players?
Why is it that when a girl goes out with a lot of guys they are considered sluts and looked down upon, while guys who get a lot of girls are "idols" or people to be looked up to?
Some popular sayings that we've gotten from the media include "Good girls like bad boys," "Nice guys finish last," and "Tall, dark and handsome," (describing attractive men, dark referring to mysterious or bad according to my interpretation), but are these saying really true?
From the lens of someone who is looking for a serious relationship these sayings probably wouldn't be true. When looking for someone to be a friend or a relationship partner, we probably wouldn't want someone, male or female, who is a player or someone who does not care about us. So why does the media state otherwise?
(Just to throw in an extra video for you: Nice Guys )
Questions to consider:
- Why are bad boys or players considered "cool," and do you really think they are?
- Why do you think women are expected to be monogamous (dating only one person at a time) while men are not?
- Do you think that the dominant discourse stating that men are unemotional is true? Do you think that this assumption is true for real men (men in your day to day lives) ?
Viola is not portrayed as a completely stereotypical girl, but rather she is sporty, she does not like very "girly" thing like debutantes (coming out parties) and she's very outspoken and not afraid to be crude. However, she does have some more "typically feminine" qualities, such as the fact that she is caring and passionate, and in touch with her emotions.
This, in the end leads her to catch the attention of the male lead Duke (Channing Tatum).
As Sebastian, Viola tries to embody the dominant discourse of men. She tries to be tough and strong, she speaks with a low voice and uses slang such as "bro" and "homie," and she tries not to show emotion. Unfortunately, Viola is not very good at this. When she does slip up and let her emotions and her more caring side show, she (as Sebastian) is thought of as weird and a loser by the other guys. Its not until "Sebastian" pretends to be a player that the other guys start to think that he's cool.
Check out this clip:
She's The Man Restaurant Scene
The explicit message in this clip is that its not cool for guys to be emotional. Guys are cool when they get a lot of girls or they're players. So to go along with this theme of role reversals, how come girls can't be players?
Why is it that when a girl goes out with a lot of guys they are considered sluts and looked down upon, while guys who get a lot of girls are "idols" or people to be looked up to?
Some popular sayings that we've gotten from the media include "Good girls like bad boys," "Nice guys finish last," and "Tall, dark and handsome," (describing attractive men, dark referring to mysterious or bad according to my interpretation), but are these saying really true?
From the lens of someone who is looking for a serious relationship these sayings probably wouldn't be true. When looking for someone to be a friend or a relationship partner, we probably wouldn't want someone, male or female, who is a player or someone who does not care about us. So why does the media state otherwise?
(Just to throw in an extra video for you: Nice Guys )
Questions to consider:
- Why are bad boys or players considered "cool," and do you really think they are?
- Why do you think women are expected to be monogamous (dating only one person at a time) while men are not?
- Do you think that the dominant discourse stating that men are unemotional is true? Do you think that this assumption is true for real men (men in your day to day lives) ?
YES. I apologize for my abrupt blurt, but I do think "bad boys" are indeed cool, and this is coming from a guy. I like how you took a whole turn of things by switching the roles of people, to offer us a pair of lenses to see how abnormal things would be. "Bad boys" are like, the "jocks" in our society and they kind of do get all of the ladies; their superiority in looks and talents are second to none, when comparing them to average dudes. So yeah, they are cool cause they can do things we can't, and we look up to that - things we wish we had so we could get the ladies.
ReplyDeleteI understand what you're saying. So would you agree with the saying "nice guys finish last" then?
DeleteYes and no! Bad boys will be bad boys, and nice guys will be nice guys. They both have their respective characteristics and charm, so it's really just up to the girls who make the decision from there.
DeleteI agree with you when you say that the two have different qualities that are considered appealing.
DeleteBut when you say "they are cool cause they can do things we can't, and we look up to that - things we wish we had so we could get the ladies." do you think that "bad boys" have more of an advantage over "nice guys" ?
I understand why people may assume that good guys finish last, but they are getting it all wrong. The thing about good guys are that they think too much. They are always thinking "Oh what if she doesn't like me back?" "We are too close of friends!" Just excuses for them being afraid to actually go get the girls. While the so called "bad boys," do not care about how the girl feels and just go with it. It is mainly confidence! It does not matter if someone is a "bad boy" or if they are a "nice guy," if they have enough courage to go get the girl, they will attract the females!!!
DeleteHi Chelsey. I like to answer you question by saying, girls tend to go for "bad guys" because they seem more adventurous and have that mysterious factor. Its no secret that teenagers like to do some daring things and I think these "bad boys" can offer these things to the girls which makes girls so attractive to them. Maybe not all cases but I hope you know what I mean.
DeleteTo Steven and Selina, yes, I can see both your points. :)
DeleteThe confidence and the adventurous qualities are indeed attractive.
Thank you for your comments. :)
I do believe the dominant discourse stating that men are unemotional is true. Men are know to be strong and fearless and if they were to show any "weakness", they are not considered a "real" man. Under pressure from the society, they suppress qualities that are not considered appropriate. At the same time, pretend to have qualities that they don't really have, but considered necessary for the gender that they belong to.
ReplyDeleteYou make a good point, Selina. I think that pressure from society has the same effect on all of us. We all want to fit into these "boxes" set out for us in order to not feel like an outsider.
DeleteWhat I'd like to know (and I just edited the original question for this) is if you think this dominant discourse applies to the men in your life (family members, schoolmates, etc) ?
Not necessarily. I know many men in my life that are emotional and are really comfortable showing their emotions to me. But when they are with their friends or in a group they are completely different person acting like the typical male society make them out to be. I believe this is the case because of the social pressure like I said before.
DeleteThat's interesting :)
DeleteSo would you say proximity and trust is the factor in having people open up to you? Or do you think its more about not being judged? That being said, if society were to be more accepting (in a perfect world) do you think all people would show their true natures?
Personally, I believe male, "players" are considered cool because of the high value women place on their bodies. Not to objectify women and men but there is one pretty comedic analogy. " A key that can open many locks, is a great key. A lock opened by many keys is a bad lock". In society women are forced to pretend that they don't like sex and don't really openly discuss anything sexual because of the criticism they may face from others. This is because they have been conditioned to act, "lady-like" and enjoying anything sexual does not meet the criteria of being a woman apparently. Therefore a woman that is proud and open about being sexual is considered a slut, whore etc because they are not following the societal norms.
ReplyDeleteI really like your analogy Akber :) and that's a very interesting way to put it. That players are considered cool because they can actually "get" women who place high value on their bodies.
DeleteI guess in a way you could say that maybe they aren't bad boys then, assuming that these women aren't naive or easily seduced. These players wouldn't be able to play usual tricks or use any old pick up line because these women who have higher standards wouldn't fall for it.
I hope you understand what I'm saying here.
Thanks i stole it :) . The only reason they are considered, "bad boys" is because they are usually portrayed as aggressive bullies in media. Media also shows that they are not afraid to express their sexual urges, while "nice guys" make no attempt and are really timid when it comes to something as simple as complimenting a girl. So they are doing what the nice guys are afraid to do. So in that sense they are bad ass. Mix that with a teenager and you have a bad boy. Yes I think i understand where your coming from. On top of having a way with words the main reason these "bad boys" get all the girls is because they are afraid to express their sexuality towards women.
DeleteThat's a really great point. :)
DeleteSo this type of "bad boy," one who isn't afraid to express their sexuality and those who have a way with words is very attractive and I would agree with you on that. Someone like this portrays confidence and that is very attractive in my opinion.
However, do you think that certain "bad boys" would be considered unattractive? That is to say do you think that there is another type of "bad boy" in the media that doesn't portray attractive qualities?
Definitely, there are the "bad boys" who are flat out douchebags all around. It is portrayed a whole lot less though. These "bad boys" are just bad, not in a good way. Mean to males and terrible with women, quite the poor souls.
DeleteGreat post Chelsey. It was very interesting that you brought this movie up. I have to say, this movie is horrible and it's comedy was mediocre. Nevertheless, you used it in a very wise way to help support your topic. I applaud you for that. To answer your first question, from what i have observed "bad boys" are considered cool because they are either rebels or they embody traits such as "dangerous" or "brave". Many females find such men to be very attractive, and one can understand why. That is why it can be said that many women find gangsters to be cool/attractive. Onto my personal opinion, not to be spiteful or anything, but seeing people like them gives me what i like to call "facepalm moments". Have you noticed, that in most movies, the "jock" is incredibly stupid? In reference to question 2 here is a very interesting link to look at: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/women-who-stray/201005/higamous-hogamous-women-arent-truly-monogamous
ReplyDeleteI don't think that the dominant discourse for men being unemotional individuals is true. In fact i think many males are forced to suppress their emotions in order for them to feel included in society. However, i would like to mention that i think men should be "allowed" to cry, but only on occasions where crying would actually be necessary. This should not go without saying, that i think that should also apply to women. Now someone might say "Fawad, how do you know when it is necessary to cry?" Well, what i mean to say is that crying should be logical, it should be an act that comes from intensive sadness/fear/happiness ect. I really don't want this point to be taken in the wrong way, so if any clarification is necessary, i would be glad to help.
On a side note the whole notion of "getting ladies" i think is pretty stupid. I say, "Get Ladies? Ha! How about you get an education first."
Thank you for your very lengthy reply. :) First can you expand on why you think women are attracted to "bad boys" ?
DeleteSecond, if men are suppressing their emotions, would that make the dominant discourse true since they are trying to adhere to it? Personally, I agree with you in saying that in highly emotional situations everyone should be able to express what they are feeling (like through crying).
Well to expand one the point made, i must first restate the fact that not all women fall for these types of males (which is why I said "many"). Continuing on, the reason i see behind why many women fall for "bad boys" is because of the rush/high that they get from it. Being on the side of the rebel or one who goes against authority figures is something that intrigues many females. The rush/high that i mentioned is induced because of "living on the edge", as in life is no longer boring or plain any more because "bad boys" bring action and adventure along with them. This can be related to the 80s when Motley Crue was doing really well in the hard rock scene. Many females were all over them, not only because it was a rock band but also because when you were with them, you would feel "alive" or "exhilarated". They were, what some may call, "badasses" and they had a strong reputation for being rebels. (happened with many bands from the 60s-90s) If this point needs further expansion that is fine, but i hope this answers your question.
DeleteAlso, to answer your second question, if we were to look at it from that point of view then yes. The dominant discourse would be true because males are shown to be the ones who suppress their emotions.
I understand now. Thank you for your clarification. :)
DeleteIn response to question two, i believe that both male and female are expected to be monogamous. Although women who are discovered being with many men are seen as slut, men who are caught being with many women are seen as jerks. There is a balance between the two titles. One of the many reasons why the issue with women being called a slut is a bigger deal than men being called jerks is because women make it a bigger deal and react badly about it. To men, when they are called jerks they shrug it off as though it does not mean anything and does not effect them in any way while, many women who are called sluts, take it to heart and let the title effect many aspects in their lives. This does not apply to all women and men but, this is what i personally have seen happen most of the time.
ReplyDeleteI can understand your point of view, but from what I have seen there is an unbalance between men who are polygamous and women who are polygamous. From within a committed relationship, both partners are expected to be monogamous.
DeleteOn the other hand, in the media, and explicitly in this clip, men are seen as cool for being players. My assumption from the media is that men who have friends admire them more for it. Would you agree with me or am I completely off? What do you think of this?
I agree with you Chelsey. Some guys put on a act trying to show that they can get many girls so that they can look "cool". As a girl, I think that is the most stupidest thing ever.However, some girls always end up going to the guys who are referred to as players. There's a saying, "good boys are are no fun and bad boys are no good". Again, there's only a group of guys that we judge based on their actions. Meaning that there are a lot of guys out there that are still respectful towards women, and others guys that act like player.
ReplyDeleteTo answer the last question, I don't think that all men are unemotional. They may be shown as their unemotional but really, do you think guys heart are made out of rock? No, right? So they do feel some emotions.
I really like your points, Dharshiga. :)
DeleteTo expand on your point, I do think that the saying is popular and that that is how good boys as well are portrayed in the media. Especially in reference to my clip in the text. When "Sebastian" was being a "good boy" the other guys saw him as a loser.
I also agree with you on your second point. In my life, I haven't viewed men as unemotional, though sometimes I think they do suppress it.
Good Post Chelsey, I just want to say a few interesting things about this issue. I would start of by saying that in today's world the way women are seen as sluts when they "go out with a lot of guys" is because of the way a man thinks of a women. Now lets reflect how men of today think about women, they think of them as people who are the "honour" and "respect" of this male dominant world. To protect them, the society thinks its right for them not to date guys and become a "slut". This is the way a typical world of manly thoughts express their opinions about women. That being said, i personally do not agree with women being called sluts for dating different guys and men being called players for dating many girls. This is surely a stereotype but sadly this is what the male dominant world sets it's double standards in existence.
ReplyDeleteHi Bilal.
DeleteCan you expand on what you mean by women being "the "honour" and "respect of this male dominant world" ?
Interesting post Chelsey, I'd like to start off by answering the first question. In a sense bad boys are considered "cool" for their appearance and charms.However in reality, it is all just for show in order to impress the targeted female. I believe that bad boys achieve their goals by being untruthful, because it is the one of easiest ways to capture a girl's attention, one is required to display no knowledge whatsoever of the trait or attribute that the female is interested in. But to be dishonest with someone you like, i would not consider it "cool".
ReplyDeleteThanks for your comment, Philip :)
DeleteI would agree that being honest to impress someone isn't cool. I also agree that being dishonest would also be the easiest method to capture someone's attention, especially if you can pull off the lie very well. That was a very interesting point. :)
Great post Ms.Pangilinan. I will start off by saying that females should be dating only one guy at a time. Society has embedded into our minds that if a girl were to date more than one guy she would be considered a "slut". Likewise, if a guy was dating one or more girls he is the "man". Dominant discourse has kind of labelled males as "unemotional". By saying that, males don't care if they date multiple girls because they are in it for the kill. Media texts that we consume daily has told us that females need to have class and if they date multiple guys at the same time they don't have self-respectful and class. Furthermore, guys are somewhat "heartless" as the media presents them. Guys are players, so ladies I would advise you to do some research before hooking up. Peace.
ReplyDeleteHi Endrit.
DeleteI noticed that when you said women should be dating only one man, you didn't make the same statement for men. Do you believe that men also should date one woman at a time or no?
Am I the only one that is able to see the facade "bad boys" put up? I don't think they're cool, in fact, I feel bad that girls fall for guys like that. Many of us can't help but fall for guys that would barely give us girls the time and attention we seek. I'm sure the phrase:
ReplyDelete"Isn't it Ironic, that we ignore the ones who adore us,
adore the ones that ignore us,
love the ones who hurt us, and
hurt the ones that love us." -Jordan Neil
How unfortunate that this quote is true.
Q2. What is wrong with dating one person at a time? Is it really that hard to stay faithful to someone? I believe that if you're unhappy in a relationship, just leave it. It's better that, than to hurt someone innocent.Dating back to history, women didn't have much freedom hence the reason why men can see more than one person whilst being in a relation ship.
Q3 I believe that men aren't unemotional. Their act of carelessness can be just an act. Guys generally are better at hiding their feelings than expressing them because it is perceived as "weak". Many of my guy friends have many problems daily but I wouldn't know unless they tell me but when I have a problem, it's just written all over my face :$!
For the part where I wrote "I'm sure the phrase", I meant to say: I'm sure many of us are familiar with this phrase.
DeleteHi Shelly. :)
DeleteI'd like to think that many of us can see past a bad boy facade, but as some of the earlier comments have mentioned, the stereotypical "bad boy" does portray some attractive qualities such as being adventurous.
As for your response to the second question, I did not mean to say that dating one person at a time was bad, but I wanted to phrase the question to point out the inequality between expectations for women vs. the expectations for men. I do agree that dating one person at a time is great in a committed relationship, but I also think that a single women who wants to date different men should have the same freedom as a man who does the same thing and not have to worry about being called a slut.
Your last point is very interesting to me :)
Many of the previous comments have said the same thing, but I like how you compared it to yourself. I guess men would be a little bit better than women in suppressing emotions and not necessarily that they suppress more emotions, if that makes sense.
I think bad boys are considered cool because girls like the mystery that they have. Teenage girls like to be risky and having a “bad boy” in their lives can offer then that. I do not think men are as unemotional as they are portrayed in the media. I hear a saying very often, “real men aren’t afraid to cry.” There is a part of me that wants to believe this but then again who knows. But sometime its good for a man to cry because it shows that they actually have deep emotions about something and it breaks down the stereotype.
ReplyDeleteI think that's an interesting saying, "real men aren't afraid to cry."
DeleteI'm glad you commented this because it is an interesting opposite side to this stereotype. We have stereotypes that men don't cry and then we also have this saying that real men do cry. It would seem to me that society is contradicting itself here. What do you think?
Great post Chelsey, I just want to start off by answering your first question. personally, I believe that some people consider bad boys or players as cool since they believe that it will help gain attention. Some people view movies that show how bad boys are cool which gives people this wrong message. As a result people incorporate this message and apply it to their life. That is the reason why a majority of the westernized kids believe that bad boys are actually considered cool. Also, I do believe the dominant discourse stating that men are unemotional is true. Since many people in this world have a misconception that men do not cry, however everyone has emotion. As mentioned earlier, people are getting mixed messages from media.
ReplyDelete