Hi Everyone,
In preparation for our live-blog round table discussion tomorrow please read this article that addresses the Steubenville rape case, a teen suicide in Nova Scotia, and the phenomenon of "rape culture." Just like our previous round table on abortion, I caution you all to be very careful about the tone of your comments. For some reason when people express themselves through technology their sense of accountability disappears. Also, it is very difficult to detect tone through text alone (are people being sincere, or sarcastic?). Since this live-blog will be marked like a regular round table I encourage you to be respectful and mature when writing your comments (as I know you are capable of doing) since you cannot know the past experiences of your peers, or their friends and families.
The article is a bit long, but brings up a lot of interesting points of discussion. Here are some of the leading questions for our live-blog.
Questions to consider:
1. To what extent do you believe technology has contributed to incidences of sexual assault?
2. From your experience as a high school student, how well do you think sex education informs students about "consent, new technology, and sexual assault?"
3. What is your response to the statistic listed in the article that, "About one in four college-age women will be sexually assaulted at some point during their time at university?"
4. “Boys who normally would never sexually assault a girl are much more
likely when they feel their peers are watching and will support their
efforts . . . And in high school, peer support and likability is
everything,” Donovan says." Do you believe this is true? Why/why not?
5. In regards to police questioning victims of rape: "Lots of questions are still asked about: Why did you put yourself in a
position where you were going to get raped? . . . We never ask these
questions when a person’s house is burgled. What did your curtains do to
invite the intruder to break the glass?" Why do so many people assume that rape is justified on the grounds of what the victim is wearing? How might this be changed?
Please consider these questions carefully tonight and post your responses during class time tomorrow. I'm looking forward to it!
Let the discussion begin!
ReplyDeleteSociety needs realize that rape is as much a crime as murder is and it is not to be blamed on what the victim was wearing or even where they were. As the article stated, "Lots of questions are still asked about: Why did you put yourself in a position where you were going to get raped? . . . We never ask these questions when a person’s house is burgled. What did your curtains do to invite the intruder to break the glass?" An individual should have the freedom to wear what they want and not be provoked about it and if the way a women is dressed a bother to some men then they should close their eyes or not go out in public.
ReplyDeleteIndeed, individuals should have the freedom to express themselves freely, but how can we limit the actions of others? I think men should be allowed to go out whenever they want, and do what they want - not that I am supporting rapists, but if women are allowed a sort of "freedom" to wear what they want, then potential "rapists" should be allowed to do what they want.
DeleteKent, I think you need to clarify what you mean. This comment makes it seem like rapists have the right to rape...
DeleteLike Chelsey said, it doesn't matter what a woman wears, she is still a potential victim. I personally believe that if someone is a 'potential' rapist then their freedom of expression doesn't matter.
DeleteSure both men and women should be able to do what they want, but what I'd like to think is that we are all in control of our actions, and that any human being can understand the difference between yes and no.
DeleteYes they should have the freedom to dress as they please however,i do believe that it is the victims fault in this situation because they are responsible for how they present themselves toward potential rapists.
DeleteIf women are allowed to wear what they want and have absolute freedom men should too. But we have to understand that rape is not the females fault. She doesn't call for it based on how shes dressing. She's simply being herself. If she dresses in a really short dress or even in a bikini and a man is provoked by that, then he should calm himself down. Not go and rape her. How many people do females see down the streets and those faces provoke them? You don't see us shooting their heads off.
DeleteMy apologies. What I mean by "doing what they want", is acknowledging that everyone should have the freedom to do what they want. Consequences may be present for such actions, and everyone should be liable for whatever they've done.
DeleteExactly I agree with Maryam's point, people should be able to control themselves.
DeleteSo basically the only way women are allowed to be "safe" from these potential rapists is to wrap ourselves to be completely covered? Why is it a big deal when women are exposing skin but when a guy does it, he's not a potential rape victim. I don't see how fairness comes to play. Women and men are allowed to wear what they want and show how much skin they want. I'm sure men have a brain they can use that can easily tell them rape is wrong. Unless they've never been taught then thats a different story.
DeleteI completely agree with what Lauren has said.I think that people should have the freedom to wear what they want and not let their freedom be deprived because some people cannot cantrol their lust. People choose to dress the way they do because that is how they express themselves. However, it depends on the situation. For example, if a girl/boy is alone at night and is wearing provactive clothing that shows off his/her goods ;), that person brought it upon his/her. They should've known better to wear such clothing at night where there are predators lurking in every corner.
DeleteI agree with you Lauren because everyone should have the freedom of wearing what they want and when they want. This can relate to the situation that happened at York, when one girl got sexually assaulted and the girls at York were wearing a 2-piece binki against what the cop said. The cop said that her clothing selection was to blame. I believe that the cop is wrong on so many levels to begin with. I believe that people should have the freedom and ability either a male or female to wear what they want and when they want. They shouldn't be accountable when a sexual assault occurs because on their cloth selection.
DeleteI most definitely agree with Monica. Both men and women have the freedom of expression. They both can wear whatever they like, but when a women does do that, she is a victim of rape? Everyone has their mind of their own. We all know what is good and what is bad. So its pretty much common sense for men to know that rape is bad.
DeleteI think most of you are forgetting that not just female who gets rape. There are men around the world who gets rape too!
Deletehttp://www.experienceproject.com/stories/Know-Men-Can-Be-Rape-Victims-Too/1282212
kent i completely disagree with you i don't think that as a potential "rapists" you should be allowed to what you want. As a brother and a son i think that my sister or mother should have the right to leave the house and come back without being harassed. I don't think that females should have to be constricted and be denied certain right because someone can't control them self.
DeleteGood points Steven, Abdullahi.
Delete@philip i agree with your point. There should be a limit on how much skin you show. It is natural for me to look at women and exposingyour body evokes a man to rape..,.
DeleteI agree on Lauren's point of view here! I think that people in the society should be able to have the freedom to wear whatever they want. People choose to dress the way they do because that is how they express themselves.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with Lauren's last sentence. People should be free to wear what they want. And no one can say that rape happens because of what a certain person wears because even women in other countries that wear clothing that covers them from head to toe are raped.
ReplyDeleteI want to reply to question number two really quickly because the university of waterloo just came to school. When we were in grade 9 and studying gym and health we were taught about self defense and how to say no to unwanted touching, like the article says, but we weren't taught about rape and how wrong it is. I agree that it is going to take education in order to change things because none of us are taught about what consent really means.
ReplyDeleteInteresting. My school experience was similar - lots of warnings to girls about how to avoid sexual assault.
DeleteI definitely agree with you. In the article, it mentioned "... where an outdated sex-education curriculum doesn’t address consent, new technology or sexual assault". Rape culture is such a big issue in our culture nowadays, and education is the key tool to stop spreading the ignorance. It's horrible that the victims in these cases are being treated like the perpetrators, as if they are the ones who have committed a crime. We need to realize that the rape culture within our society have dire consequences (like Rehtaeh's suicide).
DeleteWe need education to change things. However we should change the way how we perceive the media first.Be unsupported with media that had negetive message on young. We might think even if we speak up, no one would care. But it does make a difference. There will be alway supporter, who share same opinion and value as you to against the way how cultures are today. Before question about law, social attitude, and culture view, ask yourself have you try to change by not listening to negative message? Act up, before it's too late.
DeleteI agree with you Chelsey. Teenagers are at school almost everyday for a long period of time. They should be taught about rape and how it is wrong. If we are in school to learn, we should learn how to protect ourselves from rapist and about anything we might face in the real world.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteGood comment. Who is this?
DeleteI'm Nguyen Dao
DeleteMs. Draper, can you mark me on my 3 comments? I'd like to go to university of Waterloo presentation. It's my first choice.
ReplyDeleteI can. Are there many other students absent for this presentation?
DeleteI think it was just me.
Delete"Society needs realize that rape is as much a crime as murder is and it is not to be blamed on what the victim was wearing or even where they were." In media such as movie, RAPE appeals on mostly woman with pretty face, dress inapproriate/ half- naked." But in reality, rape happens to everyone, no age restriction. Media is somehow make us think that person would only rape on pretty girl with inappropriate cloth
ReplyDeleteI believe that technology has provided more sexual incidents then ever before. We are constantly bombarded with all types of media. The youth have been immersed in rape culture their entire life's and I believe that technology has made fantasy into reality. The article said" rape culture is embedded in hip-hop videos, beer commercials and video games- anything that sends a message that rape is sexy, masculine and cool." The media insists that rape cultural is to be considered normal. Young people are now so connected to social media that after a sexual incident it is posted online which be just a s painful as, if not worse than the incident itself. The article includes that "one of the reasons for this is that social media happens to be heavily used by the demographic- girls and women between 14-24- that is also at the highest risk of becoming victims of sexual assault" said Dusty Johnstone of University of Windsor. I have to agree with Mr. Johnstone because females and women are kind of setting themselves up for a incident. They are the first ones to be blamed in any situation of sexual incidents.
ReplyDeleteDo you think young women are pressured to present themselves provocatively online?
DeleteSo in a way you are saying that the way a female presents herself is why she is getting raped? What if that's her own individuality? When you say this you make it seem that females should only be restricted to what they wear so they won't be raped.
Delete@Draper I think that at some cases women are pressured to present themselves proactively online because most engage into the new thing called "sexting"
Delete@Maryam If you act "sluty" that is not individuality. You just asking for something to occur. Yes, the way the females present themselves is the reasoning behind why they get raped in the first place.
DeleteTrue, but even in the world of "sexting" there is a double standard. Men don't seem to be as embarrassed or attacked if compromising photos of them are shared with others. Why is that?
DeleteIn response to your question Ms. Draper, I feel like women are definitely pressured, online and in real life. Men and society are constantly relaying the idea that physical appearances are important. When girls are not provocative, they're labeled as "boring" or a "tease". For example, look at people like Taylor Swift, who is constantly referred to as a "slut" for how many men she dates. Why is it when men do that it's okay, but as a woman, it's automatically something negative? We should be entitled to just as much sexual freedom as men, without the backlash and criticism. I feel like the media also likes to portray Taylor as a desperate, love-sick woman because the dominant discourse in society is that woman can't be confident lovers, who can juggle men without emotional entanglements.
DeleteGuys will not get embarrassed because they are guys. Like if you call a guy a "slut" he will just laugh about it. If a girl was to be called a "slut" then hell will break lose and everyone will know about it. For example, it a guy sleeps with 3 different girls he is the man. Likewise, if a girl sleeps with 3 different guys she is considered a whore. So if girls photos are shared with others people with think she is a "slut" and that's why they get embarrassed in comparison to guys.
DeleteGood point Rebecca.
DeleteI totally agree with Endrit DIna. Sluttiness is not invidividuality.
DeleteThat's true on so many levels Mr. Alvi.
Delete@Endrit is the term "slutty" only referred to females. Males dress "slutty" and they are not raped. But when a female does it, and dresses in "slutty" clothing revealing too much skin, showing off her cleavage then she's putting herself in the position to get raped? Of course not. You can be covered from the top of your head to the bottom of your toes and still get raped. Rape should not be the females fault because of the way she is dressing.
Delete@Endrit. Thank you for pointing out the hypocrisy of male vs female sexuality. What do you think reinforces the "stud" vs "slut" mentality?
DeleteIt's media that reinforces the "stud" and "slut" mentality. Like take for example, Kim Kardashian who is considered a "slut". Media proclaims that she has slept with numerous guys as followed; Reggie Bush, Kris Humphries and Kanye west. It's true she did sleep with them all.
DeleteOfcourse not, you canot be raped if your covered top to bottom, its your physical appearance if you get raped or not, How can guys be slutty? There is no way a guy can be slutty. I agree with Mr. Dina. Referring to the article, if your gonna be drunk at night and wearing inapropriate clothes then you likely to be a victim of a rape. Also, to point out at something Rebecca said, that girls are boring if they dont act slutty? I dont think thats a a case. Alot of guys respect and like being friends with girls that dont act slutty.
Delete@Bilal I totally agree with you Mr. Alvi. Canada has some of the most progressive laws on gender-based violence in the world. Consent, as it's defined by the law, can best be summed up with the phrase, "Only yes mean yes". If a girl files a sexual assault report and she gave consent then its her felt for putting herself in that situation. I am sorry if you're drunk and make stupid actions. This relates to the situation that happened to the Football Players. The girl asked for what she wanted and gave consent.
Deletei think that they should dress a little less provocative because they are obviously aware that this is becoming a very big issue.
DeleteYes, Mr. Dina i mean there are many guys who like taking advantages of girls when they get the chance because they can not control themselves, i believe the should be punished but the girls should also be educated about controling their body and how they look, it is as simple as it can get. I really find it weird how some people in this convo think that guys can also be raped and people will find it funny. Ofcourse, you will find it funny becuase not many guys raped, and its the girls that are more likely to be assaulted. I mean how can you even think that guys will get raped and people would not find that funny. Thats the what the main point of everyone is in today's world.
DeleteI agree with Chelsey's second comment, education is what is needed to stop this rape culture in our socitey. Rape jokes and the not so serious additude towards thia topic needed to be changed. Shows like Family Guy and the movie Fun Size use the word or meaning rape as a joke and comments like that "dude just got and raped" further encourage the relaxed attitude towards rape.
ReplyDeleteVery true. Rape is often a joke. It used to be common for me to hear students say things like "You raped me in Call of Duty last night." Who is this?
DeleteIt's me Lydia
DeletePeer pressured is very recognized in high school because teenagers want to feel like they belong somewhere and fit into the culture norms. These boys could of (not saying they were) peer pressured into raping the girl for the "fun" of it. So, I do believe that boys would do this kind of assault if their friends were around oppose if they were by themselves
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteI disagree with Selina here. It does not matter if someone is with a group of their friends, or even by themself. Everyone makes their own decision, and they must take responsibility for it. At the end of the day, if someone decides to rape a victim it is not because the group of the friends fault, but their own!
DeleteHmmmm.... I've witnessed guys get more out of hand in large groups than individually. Anyone else want to weigh in?
DeleteAt the end of the day, we are all responsible for our own actions and nobody has the right to force anybody to do anything they don't want to do. As long as the individual decides and performs on a sexual act they should be held accountable for it, and reasoning that "I got peer pressured into doing this" shouldn't be a valid reason.
DeleteYes but everyone should be responsible for their own actions. It is like saying that i decide to shoot a group of elementary students just because a bunch of my friends were doing it. I can not say that the reason I was doing it was because the "Guys" were doing it, but I have to take on the responsibility. At the end of the day I have decided to join with my friends and hurt those elementary students. It is not their fault, but mine for making the decision to do so.
Deletei think it's an INFLUENCE, rather than peer pressure. You see your friend did it, and you follow to act COOL.
DeletePeople do have a freedom of expressions, so they can dress however they like. No one deserves rape. Dressing provocatively doesn't mean you're asking for it. Many people need to realize that rape happens everywhere, even between a couple.
ReplyDeleteYes that is true, but in today's society men have the tendency to target provocative women. It should be clear that women have a clear conscience that "pretty girls" are commonly raped and that they should have responsibility for how they present themselves to that public.I am referring to North America by the way.
DeleteWith reply to question 2. As a high school student I don't really think that sex education informs students about consent, new technology and sexual assault. All the we have been informed is that if you feel that you are pressured in a relationship to do something, or assaulted in anyway (i.e sexually) then step out of it or speak out about it. Basically trying to defend yourself. In high school we are not openly taught in sex education about consent and new technology issues related to sexual assault. We are just taught why such a rape may it occur.
ReplyDeleteA little while ago there was a push to reform sex education in Ontario. Why do you think it might be so challenging for changes to be made to this curriculum?
DeleteEmma the Cruden is Lydia Ms. Draper
DeleteThis might be a bit challenging because first I feel that change is challenging itself. But I feel it's to what extent can sex education be taught, or how it is taught that will be the challenging part in putting this into the curriculum. This will obviously have to be voted on by other politicians. If the majority feel that this is an comfortable topic to insert in the curriculum then our premier Kathleen Wynne wouldn't be able to force it in.
DeleteVery good Lauren, i approve of the point that you have just made. That is because i agree with it. However, i would like to point something out. Here's an analogy, say that you are wearing provocative clothing (which is fine) and you're coming home at 2am. That's fine, but now you have the option of either going down a dark alley or taking the lit sidewalk and you choose to go down the alley when you know it's dangerous. Then something happens to you, it should be understood that one must use their own brain in situations like this. I disagree with the police and the comment that they made (just to clarify). However, the point of this comment to just to say that one (man or woman) must analyze their surroundings and critically think about situations before going through with them. It is true that rapists should not do what they do (it is wrong) and it is sad to see that many women have suffered because of the total disregard for humanity that rapists have. If i need to clarify anything please tell me. Oh also, rape should be deemed equivalent to murder because not only does it cause physical harm but it also causes mental pain.
ReplyDeleteTrue, but isn't it unfair that men have immunity to dark alleys? Also, we need to acknowledge that the majority of rapes happen behind closed doors (not in random alleys), and are committed by persons known to the victim.
DeleteI should have included into my comment also that yes individuals need to be aware of their surroundings, not just blindly walk down the road with no idea of what's happening around them. So yes, an individual is required to use their reasoning to at least try to be safe.
DeleteI wholesomely agree with Fawad here, the example of the lit sidewalk and the dark alleyway was one I was thinking off almost word by word. In that matter I do think that the victim does have some power in terms of what they do to prevent themselves from getting hurt. While I completely agree on the point that they should be able to wear anything they like without the fear of backlash, that is simply not the case, not everybody agrees. There will always be people that believe that a scantily dressed woman is "asking for it". As such, women should be careful, not because they are in the wrong, but because others are. Almost like dressing fancily with expensive clothing in a bad neighbourhood in a bad country is liable to make you a bigger target for a robber/mugger.
DeleteIf you ned me to clarify anything, ask.
Fair point Bryan.
DeleteYes Ms.Draper i do think it's unfair, but sadly it cannot be changed UNLESS THE LAW BECOMES MORE JUST AND CHANGES ARE MADE. However, there will always be people who go against the law no matter what. (just saying) And yes Ms.Draper i understand the point you made, i was just giving an example that was used to help people understand the point the point i was making.
Delete"dressing fancily with expensive clothing in a bad neighborhood in a bad country is liable to make you a bigger target for a robber/mugger" Very nice point Bryan. Also this point, "There will always be people that believe that a scantily dressed woman is "asking for it"." is applicable (the "asking for it" part.) to many situations, not only rape.
Delete@Fawad - I understand. Do you think that convicted rapists should be punished more harshly? (This kind of relates to the case in India we were talking about before).
DeleteAs i stated before, "Oh also, rape should be deemed equivalent to murder because not only does it cause physical harm but it also causes mental pain." So yes they should be punished more harshly.
DeleteI disagree with what Kent has said about the thought of potential "rapists" being allowed to do as they pleased compared to if womens want to dress
ReplyDeleteas they would like. The freedom towards what a person wants to wear compared to a person's want to commit a sexual assult crime is two completly differnet things. Women should be allowed to freely wear the clothing they want and not have to worry about being in danger.
How might we try to change our society to make this possible?
DeleteTo answer the first question, technology has a huge negative impact on the sexual assult victims. People do have the right to wear what they want, but if they think that there will be no danger or harm to them then they are wrong. If your going to dress in a manner where you will be a potential victim of a sexual assault then clearly you should stop dressing the way you do.
ReplyDelete(this is Lydia) I disagree with you Bilial. The amount of females dressed in a sexual or porvacative never amounts to the amount of females raped. Everyone should think about this a minute, if you could count the amount of times you saw a women dressing in a provacative way over the years of your life, it wouldn't amount to the number of rapes reported yearly. Clothing should not be an excuse for a women to be a victim of rape.
Delete(this is Lydia) in the article given by Ms. Draper it says that "460,000 sexual assaults reported in a survey in 2004"
DeleteI agree with Endrit's first point about how media has affected our mind set. All these messages thrown out at us over many years has corrupted society. Which in this case, makes people believe that rape is okay and if anyone were to dress provocatively they deserve to be raped.
ReplyDelete(this is Lydia) I feel it's not just media, but much of the world's culturals wheter we want to admit it or not. Rape hasn't been seen as such a negative act in history. When it has, let's just say in the westren world, and in regrads to women being the victim, it has been seen as a shame to the family or parents, or even the victim. Only rencetly in histroy when the rapists seem to be the blamed. I don't feel media is the one to solely blame, but it has just taken this idea and continued to prompt it.
DeleteSo far so good everyone! Remember that in addition to commenting on the comments of your peers, you can answer some of the leading questions.
ReplyDeleteI agree with ramoosy, he is a very bright intelligent boy, I wish i was more like him. What an awesme comment if your going to dress like a "slut" then you should stop. To adress, the third question i do think that women get sexually assaulted by men in university or college and i think that is wrong because they have the right to dress which ever way they want, but again, if your getting assaulted at university then you should stop wearing that stuff, im pretty sure no one would want to rape you if you dont look like a prostitute. It is unfortunate that one in four women get argeted for something like this and it is a shame.
ReplyDeleteIn response to question 2, when it comes to sex education in schools I don’t believe it teaches students anything most don’t already know. When it comes to consent, new technology and sexual assault, nothing of the sort is taught. They teach a student to either abstain from sex or use a condom.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with Bilal here, I think that women should be able to wear whatever they want since rape isn't really about being skimpily or provocatively dressed...its all about violence. In order to prevent rape men should be able to control their actions and lower their gaze.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with Ajmal here. Not only men commit rape but women also.
DeleteAjmal, I do agree and disagree with you at the same time since people do have the rights to wear what they want however, it should be at a certain limit. In other words, a woman can not wear a bikini at night in a university, she would obviously have high chances of being sexually assaulted. Also, i do agree with you at the same time since in order to prevent rape, men should be able to control themselves.
Deleteyeah but if a girl is wearing such clothing in a situation like that, they are increasing their chance of becoming a rape victim. They should know that societly is filled with twisted people who will rape anything that moves the first opportunity they get. So wearing such provactive clothing really wont help you in this situation.
DeleteI understand what you are saying. However, don't you think that men have the ability to control themselves? Telling women to cover up is just as insulting to men as it is to women because it implies that men just can not be accountable for their urges.
DeleteI agree with Bilal, since many individuals tend to wear cloths that provoke predators( rapists, criminals) . For example, the woman that was sexually assaulted at York university was walking alone at night wearing cloths that attracted a criminal. In other words, if the woman was wearing clothes that covered her up, she would have a less chance of getting raped. We must understand that our world is not perfect, in other words there are many people lurking around in corners and buildings waiting for a woman to pass by. I also blame men since they should control their thoughts and actions. The reason why is because some men look at woman in a wrong way which is very inappropriate. as a result, woman should be aware of the types of clothes they wear, also mean should control themselves.
ReplyDeleteSo a woman dressed for a Canadian winter, walking to her dorm room, is likely to be assaulted?
DeleteTo clarify, a woman walking to a dorm wouldn't get raped as soon as she walk to her dorm room, However what i mean is that a woman dressed in a certain way at a certain time will have high chances of getting sexually assaulted. For example, your example of a woman dressed for a Canadian winter wouldn't get sexually assaulted since shes covered up, however if the same woman was dressed differently ( small skirt and t shirt) for summer she would have a greater chance. In other words, we see woman wearing clothes that only cover them up halfway in York university at night, that is a obvious sign that she might get raped. We must consider the following factors: the types of clothes the woman is wearing, the place shes in and the time.
DeleteWomen who don't show skin also get raped. How can you explain that? Women who have a high sex appeal can't be blamed for rape. However, I do agree that men and women should control their thoughts and actions. The media made rape seem okay and has taken it very likely.
DeleteShelly, i do agree with you since the media has put this perception in our minds that if a woman is wearing provocative clothing then she will have a high chance of getting raped. For example we see this happen in movies, TV and internet, therefore media has shaped societies way on how they think of woman wearing certain types of clothes
DeleteWomen are always the one who is portrayed as the one being raped. How many times have you heard "Jonny was sexually assaulted by Amanda".. Never right?
ReplyDeleteI read this article, http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/09/living/chris-brown-female-on-male-rape/.
In this article, it states that a men was assulted by a women. When most people read that, they take it as a joke. However, if a women were to be raped it would be a serious matter?
In the article, Landrith, the victim states "I want people to understand that it's not about how physically strong you are," he says. "We [men] are conditioned to believe that we cannot be victimized in such a way."
I feel this is true because men are shown to be stronger than women, and its "impossible" for women to rape men.
Great point!
DeleteRegarding question two, I dont believe that we are being educated enough about sexual assult. In the article it states, “There has been a lot of talk about ‘rape culture’ but I think many people are missing the point. We are talking about it as if it exists somewhere ‘out there,’” says Whynacht. I completly agree with what Whynacht has said. In school we hear about rape cases occuring all around the world but, we do not stop to realize that we should take procaution and be more careful. Many students are not conviced of how serious rape cases are and how much the after effect damages a person. York University has had many rape issues and we go to school down the street from the campus yet, once again we do not assume that we could end up being the next victim.
ReplyDeleteYes! Our school is very close to a hot-spot for sexual assault, which is very concerning.
DeleteI think we also need to remember that what a women/man wears isn't the only factor that can lead them into being rape victims. There are people all over the world who can say they've been victims and some of them may not dress provacatively or maybe others have been victimized by their own family member. It isn't just what the vicitim wears but also the mentality of the potential rapist.
ReplyDeleteHere's a website of statistics I found http://www.statisticbrain.com/rape-statistics/ If you scroll down you'll see that 30.9% of rapes happen in the homes of the predators and 26.6% happen in the homes of the victim. So the potential victim doesn't have to be walking down the street or at a public place to be raped. It can easily happen in the comfort of their home.
DeleteTo agree with Monica I also feel that rape is not entirely based on desires, or the clothing be provocative enough for the man to rape the female but rape in some cases can be to have power over the individual.
DeleteThanks for the stats Monica!
DeleteI'm curious about your understanding of consent. As the article points out, we hear the message "no means no" all the time. However, many people don't understand that silence (or unconsciousness) does not equal consent. What do you think?
ReplyDeleteI believe that knowledge of what consent is, should be common sense. However, the sad truth is that many people lack common sense and are therefore prone to make dense decisions.
DeleteI think that the whole idea of "well, she didn't say no" does not apply at all. You're taking advantage of a human being, and that's wrong! The victim is not in the right state of mind to give you an answer, whether yes or no. In most of those cases, the rapists were the ones who drugged the victims in the first place, which is wrong on a whole other count.
DeleteThat's a good question, it's difficult to settle on something, as it begs the question, how many different ways can conscent be given? Or how what exactly constitutes as conscent in that context. I would say verbal conscent would be best but I assume it's not always given verbally.
DeleteMaybe the message we should be sending is "yes means yes?"
DeleteAn example can be when the victim is drunk. Most, if not all, people are not in their right state of minds when they're intoxicated, so even if they do say yes are they truly in the right mental state to give that sort of permission? It's like what it says in the article, “Can someone give consent while drunk?”.
Delete@Draper You should be accountable for your actions and if your not unconsciousness it does equal consent. If you are unconsciousness you can barely move let alone have sexual intercourse. At some times, when you're in the moment you're nothing going to ask a question. That's awkward.
DeleteOn another note, answering question 3, I do think that boy under the influence of their friends and peers are more likely to do something that they otherwise would not have done individually. Peer pressure is a very powerful and motivating factor, I have felt it before and know just how influencing it can be to want to be able to fit in and impress your friends, as the question mentions "likeability is everything". It's incredibly hard to say no and I do believe this fits in the context of who can be potential perpetrators of sexual assault.
ReplyDeleteExtremely appropriate point Bryan. There is really nothing to disagree with here but i will say one thing. As Bryan stated,fighting peer pressure is hard, but to be able to defeat it and be your own person is a great feeling. The point at which you break away from the norm and make yourself what you want and what you believe in, that is the feeling of astronomical greatness.
Delete(this is Lydia) Anwsering question 4 and agree with Bryan, I do think peer pressure and likeability is a motivating factor in why a boy who normally wouldn't commit a sexual act does. What also has to come into question is what kind of people the boy would hang out with, and if there the kind that motivate him to do this act then maybe he's just in the same category as them.
DeleteI would like to address question one. Bryan and I were conversing and a common idea was able to come out. That was, the advancement of technology does not physically help people commit rape and similar acts, but it GREATLY helps to glorify the rapists and the act done. (I am not saying that this is a good thing, but people use tech to do this.) Technology allows people to spread these acts across the web thus adding to the harm caused to the victim. Ergo, technology does not help the act to be committed, but it does (in a large way) negatively impact the victim.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to agree with your point, but we could always see it as technology helping the victims as well. When victims posts their experiences on say, the internet for example, people are likely to comment on it positively had they experienced the same thing in their lifetimes. Comments may be helpful in supporting the victim, and may even help the victim get over the experience. It also creates awareness to people who are constantly involved in technology, so potential victims would now then been more aware than before.
DeleteYes, this has become the case in the age of social media, I woudl liek to take the time to reference the article.
DeleteRape goes viral
Rehtaeh Parsons’s father has been quite insistent: it wasn’t the alleged sexual assault that drove her to suicide
The sharing of photos involving sexual assault is exacerbating the problem, adding insult to injury in cases like this. Though this is a major problem, I don't see any viable way to fix this.
Good point Kent. It seems kind of ironic that the very platform that exacerbates rape culture also provides comfort and community to anonymous victims.
DeleteIn reply, to Kent, I'd like to hope that people would comment on it positively and help the victims, but as we've seen in this article, this isn't always the case. Much of the "rape culture" right now is still based on blaming the victim. So a lot of the media, as Fawad said would probably give an outlet to further humiliate the victim.
Delete@Kent very good point, i like how you were able to look at both sides of the argument and is a conversation/debate/discussion, that is what should be done.
DeleteAlso for question 2, I totally agree with Lauren here. Sex education in schools don't really teach us anything but to have safe sex and encouraging students to use a condom. However, what they should teach us students at a young age is to know how to avoid rape and be prepared in such situations and protect yourself from such rapists.
ReplyDeleteAjmal, i do agree with you since many schools in north america teach us sex education, however this encourages students try "new things". In other words if teachers taught us about ways to avoid sexual assault, i believe that our society would have less sexual assaults.
DeleteI'd like to disagree with your point and say what would be more important is to educate everyone about how wrong rape is and that taking advantage of people is not okay in any circumstance. We need to prevent people from becoming rapists.
DeleteBy saying that we need to "be prepared" I feel like you are saying that rape is inevitable.
To clarify my point, I understand that there will always be people in the world who will want to hurt others, but I'd like to focus on prevent people from becoming rapists instead of "preparing" victims. I would rather not educate a population with the attitude that they should always be scared that someone will rape them.
DeleteSo talking about sex education encourages rape? I don't follow you @Bilal.
DeleteIn other words we all think differently and some people may interpret sex education differently, that is the reason why it provokes rapes. As a result, i do agree with Bilal and sex education should teach students how to control themselves
DeleteI would like to reply to Ms.Draper's question: A little while ago there was a push to reform sex education in Ontario. Why do you think it might be so challenging for changes to be made to this curriculum?
ReplyDeleteI believe these changes will be challenging to have sex education because parents would not like the idea about their own child learning about sex ed because it will ruin their "innocent mind". Religious factors could also be involved. All in all, this subject is very sensitive to many people and students might feel uncomfortably.
Yes, it is uncomfortable (for students AND teachers). Also, there is a common belief that teaching students about sex encourages them to become sexually active - therefore only abstinence is taught in some schools.
DeleteI definitely agree with you, Selina. But despite those challenges, I'm glad the Canadian government has at least acknowledged the issue (I can't say that for many other countries) and is trying to stop it. Yes, the bill might not work out perfectly, but it's a start.
DeleteI agree with Bryan and Fawad. Peer pressure or support can cause an individual to do things they never even thought of. Through technology, glorification can be easily received which then encourages someone to commit any violent act.
ReplyDeleteIn response to the last question, there are many factors at hand here. History is definitely one, because women were always (and still are, to a lesser extent) judged on their physical beauty and body. The old misogynistic way of thinking has transcended through many generations. Another factor is the trend of sex in the media, and the whole notion of "sex sells". By constantly being fed this, we're automatically being told that if a woman is barely dressed, she must want to have/or do something regarding sex. To stop this way of thinking, we need to realize that the way a woman dresses does not have anything to do with her desire to have intercourse.
ReplyDeleteAnother thing thing to realize is that stopping this way of thinking will be impossible in our lifetimes, the history of it is extensive, stretching throughout most of recorded human history, undoing something with that magnitude of influence will take a very, very long time.
DeleteYou may be right Bryan, but every major shift in social justice has started with one action. I'd like to think this very discussion may help in some small way.
DeleteI totally agree with you, it's not something that can be repaired overnight. With that said, I don't think we should just leave it be. We have the power!
DeleteWith that being said, the last 10 of so years have made a staggering amount of progress in terms of equality between men and women, one example is that women's roles in the military of a lot of country's are being expanded, which is a petty large accomplishment on its own.
DeleteHowever it seems these changes are only present in the western world(NA, Europe, etc.) The rest of the world is still lagging behind.
To answer question 3 of the discussion questions. It did scare me/give me jitters a bit that one in four college-age women would be sexually assaulted sometime in their college lives. This is because as a grade 12 student preparing to begin post-secondary in the fall of 2014, I feel that I will not be able to trust anyone. It's a fear I have where I feel you might be that one in four individual to be sexually assaulted. I also have a question. Why are only college-aged women the biggest targets of rape?
ReplyDeleteI agree with what Maryam has said here. After knowing this fact, I know for sure I won't be able to feel insecure if I go off to university myself. With this in mind this can influence how one could be thinking about their insecurity, I personally think that Men target on women not only because of how one may look but also because they aren't able to just control themselves. With this text that is being introduced to us, I know that there is a possibility that I will become paranoid by this situation.
Deletei agree with maryam. did you guys hear the stories about york university sexual assaults. there is a time where i heard that a man was hiding in the women stalls and sexually assaulted a women. this is very sad to hear as well as frightening.
DeleteOne way I believe that could be a solution to decrease the amount of rape crimes, would be to focus on the little things that provoke rapists. Such as stoping men or women from "cat calling". For people who dont know the term, an example would be if a person is walking down the street and gets a sexual comment from someone driving pass. These cases reminds me of several times when i had witness or have been a part of cat calls. It is very uncomfortable in that situation and most of the time women or men would continue walking and ignore the comments. Since these callers are able to leave without feeling any wrong, they would continue cat calling which could possibly lead to more serious offenses such as rape. If we choose to stand up for each other when these problems occur, it could be the first step taken to stop rape crimes.
ReplyDeleteThis reminds me of a case I heard of in New York where a woman was groped by a man on the subway. She yelled at him in the subway car. He exited the car and she persued him until she could alert the police. Unfortunately, I think many women blame themselves or believe they deserve how they are treated and, as a result, choose to let these incidences go instead of taking legal action.
Delete*pursued. Whoops!
DeleteWith reference to the article and Ms. Draper, the article says,"Consent is nowhere. It’s nowhere, but rape culture messages are everywhere. I do feel like I’m fighting a Goliath sometimes". This is a very sad but true comment. The worst part is that sometimes education does not even help to teach people right from wrong. This goes hand in hand with question 2. Sometimes people cannot be changed and education does not help it any way. Take for example the man that the article mentions. He was a "liberal arts student who took a gender studies course" but he still assaulted someone. Examine this quote, “That was sort of a wake-up call. This person could speak articulately about feminism, but still couldn't see that what he did was not OK.”
ReplyDeleteI read this article http://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2013/03/07/premier_kathleen_wynne_faces_risky_choice_on_sexed_curriculum_hepburn.html
Deleteand i personally agree with Fawad, it is hard for everyone to accept change and including this into education. At the end of the day it all depends if majority of the politicians agree on such a thing to happen. And with the liberal arts student who took a gender studies course assaulting someone I find it sick for someone to do so.
Technology is not responsable for human behavior...not yet. Its just a scape goat, people need to blame something for such atrocious acts and they blame the advances in technology. The people who commit such acts are degenerates and the peopel who blame the women and the influence of media are even bigger degenerates. Peer pressure has some influence but and it is a growing concern but the blame is still on the individual who hangs out with such people. As for the statistic, that stat is build up a weak foundation because the term sexual assault is used very loosely. If rape is justified by what the victim is wearing then murder is just extrovated suicide.
ReplyDeleteWaleed! Where have you been?
DeleteWaterloo university presentation
DeleteI'd like to bring up attention about women exposing their skin to public, Not only does the provocative clothing increases the chance of rape, but also the exposure of skin. It's a fact that most Men usually glance at women's exposed skin such as the clevage or the legs in a way, that it arouses them increasing the chance of sexual harassment or assault. I think it is natural that men enjoy looking at those parts on women therefore, i believe there should be a limit to how much women can expose their skin.
ReplyDeleteYes I agree with Phiilip that most men glances at the expose skin of the women, but I do not believe that it is the womens fault for wearing what they wear. It is the men fault that they cannot control their horniness
DeleteYes there is a limit legally. It applies to all genders though, showing genitals, or buttcracks. For women this applies as no showing of nipples as well. And women do adhefre to these standards for the most part, but we all have freedom of expression. An yes its natural for men too look at women and even women to look at men. But as human beings we are still in charge of our actions.
DeleteAs preposterous as this idea sounds, it is quite true. I agree with Phil here, because men are provoked by the clothing women wear and I'm very sure some women wear those provocative clothing for a reason - to provoke men. If women do not want certain views from men, then it should be acknowledged that women should not wear such provocative clothing.
DeleteFour minutes left! Comments made after 12:50 will not be counted, but you are more than welcome to continue commenting on this thread after class.
ReplyDeleteI mean 1:50... sorry guys, I'm not all here today.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteWaleed, is that you?
DeleteFor question 2 personally I feel sex education in high school doesn't inform students enough about consent, new technology and sexual assualt. I think education on this matter needs to go past the sex education course. For instance, in the case of using the term "that's so gay" to diss or bully someone has preety much not been used in tdsb schools( or at least CWJ) for at least a year. This is because of the awareness and campaigns made by Equity and GSA on not using the word, and the negative backlash for using the word at school by teachers and students. I could say for myself that my first year in grade 9 " that's so gay " would be used in the halls of CWJ's everyday, but now I haven't heard it hear and in the public for a year.
ReplyDelete-Lydia
I have found a video here and I don't think I have enough time to expand on my thoughts. So Ms, Draper hopefully you will count this into my mark!
ReplyDeleteBut what do yuo guys think of this !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hC0Ng_ajpY
I was unclear about which type of men i am refering, i am talking about lustful men, ones who wish to engage sexual intercourse. i'd also like to add to the fact that this is not against freedom of dressing, but to warn them about how skin can be effective toward men.
ReplyDeleteAaaaaaaaaand....... IT'S OVER! Thanks everyone! That went well. Have a great weekend. I will hopefully see you on Monday to introduce the Zine.
ReplyDeleteI forgot to add in, so if this could be done for that commet( that's so gay) in one school in a matter of months, that say should be done for our culture, where thousands of people are pushing for this cause.
ReplyDelete-Lydia